Board Game Smorgasbord: Exploitation
Join us for some gaming news, a Top 3, Back Talk, and more!
Today’s episode of Smorgasbord is brought to you by Bezier Games, publisher of Sync or Swim! Sync or Swim is a co-op party game where you and your teammates will be diving in to race against the clock to sync up as fast as possible!
We’re giving away one copy of Werewords, Deluxe Edition. This giveaway is available to anyone inthe USA. To enter the giveaway, sponsored by Bézier, please send an email to [email protected]. In the subject type UPBEAT. In the body, include your name and answer the following question. “What well known American game show assistant is one of the characters inspired by?” Entries will be accepted until 10/19/22 at 12:00 AM ET
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Donkey Roll is one of the less popular smorgasbord selections
for the merch store, not sure how the finances work out because it's another artist, but would love some of the dice versions / dinosaur versions of the crew on some clothes.
The old Clue movie is so good I don't want them to redo it, can't replace Tim Curry
glad your getting merch. use the logo on stuff. your logo is cool. cooler than a shirt that says Dice Tower not even in your normal font. your awards even look like your logo. I wouldn't buy a coca-cola shirt in comic sans.
Hey I’d love it if you guys did a special run of dice tower tie dye shirts
We need a "Rock, paper, Mike" T-shirt….. 😛
This sandwichtable show is off to a good start.
I play OG Squad Leader. It's actually on one of my tables right now.
Bob Barker, Chuck Woolery (the original Wheel of Fortune guy), Pat Sajak, and Gene Rayburn
I saw SERGIO mention Viticulture in the live chat, and I agree that it feels a bit cheap to win by selling your fields and not really focusing on wine at all. I sometimes do it, and hate myself for it. At the very least I really focus and embellish how cool and fancy my winery is.
Just putting this out there: What could be more perfect than the Dice Tower signature tie featuring all the dice guys. 100% silk of course, I only wear silk ties. I'm serious here as I don't wear t-shirts.
Another thought, dice tower socks. Then we would have fifty percent of Tom's favourite clothing items covered.
Maybe dice tower should consider doing a poll on their merch site and or Facebook for types of shirts with their dice characters, seasonal, themes, poses, etc that way they know it's worth stocking up on. I did like the names on a shirt but I feel it needs a dice tower logo to help with understanding who they are. I've also wanted a face mask with their logo or characters but unsure how relevant it is now 🤔😬. Hope the shop goes well 🤞.
like the new show
but at first glance, i thought the logo was for GameBrewer !
Counterpoint to Mike on the "breaking the game": Since the other players aren't blocking the spot to make more workers, players are choosing to allow this to work. This is a fundamental problem with the worker placement aspect, and trying to intuit what to do based on anything other than points is silly.
It depends entirely on whether there is counterplay against a dominant strategy, and that is the problem with the game. A design flaw without counterplay is the problem of the game not the player. House rule it if you want to play a certain way, but understand that your house rule is intended to provide a particular play environment rather than provide a competitive game.
If a player is seeking to win at all costs, then I think that is the player problem. And then don't play with that player – they're gaming for a different reason, and all players should game how they desire.
I could see The Dice Tower being a big accessory brand. Dice, bags, dice towers, component bins, game bags, etc. with Dice Tower branding on them seem like those would be extremely popular.
I do not want to play with someone abusing a game. HOWEVER, If I'm playing in the WSBG and I paid $250 to get to the table, anything legal goes. No "spirit" is involved I a competition like that in my opinion.
Like the new format!
I feel it is impossible, no matter how many trials you put a game through, to playtest a game to prevent all attempts to break the game. There are still efforts that will slip through. I would like it if, when such exploits are discovered, the publisher would issue a rules correction.
Curious, did anyone try and help you pronounce döner correctly? Or did you all just agree on one pronunciation and stick with it.
Noticed people in the chat comparing döner kebabs and gyros. There is similarity, but you will start quite a few arguments if you try and say they are "basically the same thing."
If I find a broken strategy in a game, I will either stop playing that game, or house-rule it when I teach others so that that isn't allowed somehow.
Love this new format.
If there is one thing the Dice Tower definitely needs to sell, it's dice!
I really like your double D6 that has 1-6 twice on a D12. I got them during your previous Kickstarter, but if I could order them from your store in different colors, that would be awesome!
A double D4 with 1-4 on a D8 twice would be cool, 'cause let's be honest, everyone thinks "rolling" a normal D4 is annoying, right?
Love the new show especially the back talk was interesting
I'm enjoying this format! I think three is the sweet spot for number of hosts – a nice balance of talking and listening to each other. And I love the chemistry with Tom, Zee, and Mike. Thank you!
Loved Backtalk! My son excells in breaking games. It is very anoying when it seems clearly not in the spirit of the game, like killing you own troups. Eating game pieces is not in the rules, but clearly should not have to be. Do we really have to write flipping the game board is not allowed? I think many things should be common sense. We tend to vote on a move as a group if it is not in the rulebook. Unfortunately, usually result in the end of the game when someone doesn't like the outcome.
Wow i absolutely 100% LOVED this series you put together. I will 100% watch this every time. Love it
Love the new show!
SHout out to Shady Maple Smorgasborg!
Okay, so I’m very curious what Tom thought about the WSBG play of Great Western Trail. In that game, the best strategy is usually to deliver several times, losing points each time but gaining a bunch of money. Then with all those resources, you can buy lots of workers and buildings, race through the loop with mediocre herds, and literally destroy an opponent who is trying to build a good herd with high point cards. After learning about this strategy, I tried it recently and ended with 25 points less than I would usually get. But I absolutely wrecked my opponent and in the end, it wasn’t fun or satisfying for either of us. Seems similar to the starve your people idea but maybe “go hungry for a few rounds” is more acceptable?
Some exploitable hacks I've found are fun to play. In Lords of Hellas, I used a weird strategy I thought would work easily and it let me control the monsters to attack my opponents. That was really fun.
In Fireball Island, hitting yourself with a fireball can be a genius move. There was no way for me to make it back to the helicopter in 2 turns. Unless I hit myself launching me closer to the exit, I stand up my next turn and escape. It is not a guaranteed winning move, but can keep you in the running.
Awesome to see the return of backtalk…a refreshing change!
Edge cases will pop up, that's just going to happen if your game is sufficiently complex. But if there are obvious ways to break "the spirit of the game" e.g. not taking powers in Rattus that is clearly on the designer. If taking powers is central to a game then the game is intrinsically flawed if the rules dont mechanically incentivise that. The rules are literally what tell the player "the way it's meant to be played". You also don't necessarily need to be smart to discover this stuff. People often stumble into "degenerate" strategies.
I’d love to see shirts with the season spectacular artwork on it
It’s great to see back talk again!
I am curious if the Zee's number 3 food churro with cream filling isnt a czech/slovak sweet called Trdelnik (something similar to spit cake), which can be eaten raw or with cream/ice cream filling.
Hey Guys, great show.
What about the Loki strategy, is that a broken aspect of playing?
App Express is not going to replace What's Appening right?
Love the new format! Great show! On the rules exploitation topic, my two cents are that ultimately it's a flaw of the game/rules. I have no issue at all with a player finding a loophole in the game/rules and using it to win the game…the first time. I think that's interesting, beneficial to future design quality, and a great example of creative game play. However, once the flaw is known, repeating it as an ongoing strategy in future games is a player issue that I won't tolerate in my gaming sessions. I do not want to play with the type of person that would see no problem employing such a strategy.
I'd buy a shirt that says "Older Than Mike".
I like the hoodie
We love Shady Maple so cool that you’re from this area
The guava cake is call Brazo gitano in PR
We need a DT air horn T-shirt. Will buy some sort of hoodie too…
Aw, Board Game Buffet would have been alliterative! But Smorgasbord is a fun word too.
About exploitation. If I didn’t know about that strategy and someone won doing that I would think it was interesting and be like hu I never would’ve thought to do that. But if you do that every time we play that’s not fun. Also yes Zee I agree if you’re able to not the entire time game taking penalties it should be basically impossible to win or else theirs no point in the penalties.
You need a json shirt that says gaming machine on it
The dice bag graphic, but on a t-shirt.
I have a strong opinion that of course you can exploit loopholes in the rules. You know what's that called? Playing well. Who's to say what's intended and what's not anyway? But if the designer (or tournament organizer) decides to patch the game, then that's the new way. But loopholes don't necessarily make games worse. It can still be a strategically interesting game. The question is if it's degenerative to the game.
Stone Age: -10 points per unfed worker. -OR –
Lose any unfed workers, and -10 points.
I’ve heard people say you can win Viticulture without ever making wine. I haven’t tried because it seems like the point of the game. It there are other ways to score points, so I can see how it’s possible